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MLB Trade Rumors: Should the Yankees Trade Jesus Montero?

The morning after the Yankees lost game 5 of the ALDS against the Tigers, talk already turned to how the Yankees will shore up their starting rotation in 2012, and John Harper from the New York Daily News tossed this trade rumor out there:

Of all the names, Cain is by far the most intriguing. Under contract for $15 million in 2012, he can be a free agent after next season, and will command huge money that the Giants, with plenty of other good, young pitching, may decide would be better spent on signing, say, Jose Reyes, to be their shortstop.

The Giants don't need a catcher, assuming Buster Posey recovers from his collision-induced broken ankle, but they're desperate for offense. As a result, they might see Montero as a cleanup hitter who could play first base for them, while they move first-base prospect Brandon Belt to the outfield.

One scout considered the notion of the Giants adding Montero and Reyes, while seeing Posey return from injury and perhaps Belt blossom, and said, "They'd go from one of the worst offensively (in the National League) to one of the best."

Jesus Montero for Matt Cain? Everyone knows what Cain will do to the Yankees starting rotation. He would slot in behind CC Sabathia, assuming CC is still a Yankee in 2012, and I think he will, but that's an article for another day. Cain went 12-11 with a 2.88 ERA, 1.083 WHIP and a 179-63 K/BB rate in 221.1 innings in 2011. Cain has thrown at least 190 innings in each of the last 6 years and owns a career record of 69-73 with a 3.35 ERA and 1.196 WHIP. Wow. I didn't realize he had a losing career record.

More on Montero to the Giants after the jump:

 

Star-divide

 

Adding Montero would enhance the Giants lineup for sure. Assuming the Giants did sign Jose Reyes and Buster Posey is healthy in 2012, here is what their lineup would look like:

C-Buster Posey

1b-Jesus Montero

2b-TBD

SS-Jose Reyes

3b- Pablo Sandoval

LF-Brandon Belt

CF-Andres Torres

RF-Nate Schierholtz

That is definitely an improvement over the lineups they were running out there in 2011. 

Since Cain pitches in a pitchers park in San Francisco, I wanted to see what his career home/road splits were and here is what I found over at Baseball-Reference:

Home-38-37, 312 ERA, 1.162 WHIP, 7.2 K/9, 2.23 K/BB

Road-30-38, 3.62 ERA, 1.234 WHIP, 7.7 K/9, 2.37 K/BB

So, his career road ERA is a half run higher than his home ERA, but moving to the American League, i would expect that split to move against him. He has one career start against the Red Sox, where he gave up one run in 7 innings, but that is an extemely small sample size, so you can't take anything from the one start to project how he would fare if he was traded to the Yankees.

I think the Yankees will try their best to deal Montero this offseason, as they may want to keep the DH spot open for aging hitters like Alex Rodriguez and Derek Jeter, giving Eduardo Nunez more playing time at third base and shortstop in 2012.

Poll
Should the Yankees trade Jesus Montero this offseason?

  245 votes | Results

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Comments

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I think Yankees should trade Montero.

Right now, the last thing they need to be worried about is their hitting. They really really need to improve the starting rotation. So I think they should trade Montero for a good pitcher like Cain.

by The Chair of Knowledge on Oct 10, 2025 9:46 AM EDT reply actions  

Would not make that move if I was Cashman

Fly ball pitcher moving from the NL West and a huge pitchers park to the AL East and a pitchers park? No thanks. He ERA would be closer to his current xFIP if he moved to Yankee stadium.

by dudedudedude on Oct 10, 2025 10:48 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

yup. he would get crushed.

The Jruth shall be told.

by packimop on Oct 10, 2025 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

the whole AL east argument isn't that big of a deal when you are playing on either the Yankees or Red Sox.

And in case you haven’t noticed most Giants starters over the last 8 or so seasons have low HR% on the road and at home. Its a skill that the Giants organization has been able to teach their pitchers.

Adoptive father of 18th round draft pick and future ace, BRANDON ALLEN

by Nnamdi Asomugha on Oct 10, 2025 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, totally has nothing to do with the parks in the division or the competition

He goes from facing Cameron Maybin in PETCO to facing Jose Bautista in the Rogers Center. The Blue Jays have a criminally underrated lineup, top 5 in all of baseball, so yes, the AL East sucks to pitch in. Add in Tampa’s always improving farm system, and the division is just so unbelievably loaded. Matt Cain would not post an ERA under 4 pitching for the Yankees.

by dudedudedude on Oct 10, 2025 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't disagree

but are you saying Romero or even Marcum in 2010 is better than Matt Cain?

Ray Guilfoyle
www.faketeams.com
www.minorleagueball.com
www.mlbdailydish.com

by Ray Guilfoyle on Oct 10, 2025 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Marcum Yes; Romero No

Of course, I don’t believe Romero will repeat the season he had. He gets a lot of groundballs which is useful but I’ll take the over on a 3.6 ERA next season.

by dudedudedude on Oct 10, 2025 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

the parks in the division?

they have to play in Colorado and Arizona as well.

Shaun Marcum being better than Matt Cain has to be a joke. Not only has Matt Cain been better the last two seasons that Marcum he is also younger and improving.

Even the biggest believers in FIP, xFIP, and SIERA either believe or are starting to believe in certain pitcher’s ability to outperform those numbers. Matt Cain is the headliner of that group and it has NOTHING to do with the competition he faces. It is an organizational philosophy that begins with Dick Tidrow and goes all the way up to Dave Righetti.

Adoptive father of 18th round draft pick and future ace, BRANDON ALLEN

by Nnamdi Asomugha on Oct 10, 2025 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Colorado has two batters, Arizona has 1

Throw the Yankees in Coors field and you have a different scenario, but it’s a joke competition wise.

You’d have to be higher than Tim Lincecum in your picture to believe Cain is better than Marcum. SIERA, FIP and xFIP are league adjusted, but not competition adjusted. Anyone can reduce their HR/FB rate playing in San Francisco facing that competition. AT&T park is the worst park for home runs, and it’s getting worse and worse.

Cain would get smacked up in the AL East. He has never seen lineups that good in the NL West.

by dudedudedude on Oct 10, 2025 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

LAD lineup in 2008 and 2009

was pretty good…..so Cain has seen good lineups in the West.
Martin
Loney
O-Dog
Furcal
MAnny
Kemp
Ethier
Blake

what is difference between league adjusted and competition adjusted?
So would Lincecum and Kershaw get smacked up in the AL East? Halladay didn’t. Marcum was not much better in the NL than in AL.

Ray Guilfoyle
www.faketeams.com
www.minorleagueball.com
www.mlbdailydish.com

by Ray Guilfoyle on Oct 10, 2025 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

and Cain

has a much higher WAR this season…..lower FIP as well…..I know you used that argument when we were discussing Halladay vs Kershaw for CY.

Ray Guilfoyle
www.faketeams.com
www.minorleagueball.com
www.mlbdailydish.com

by Ray Guilfoyle on Oct 10, 2025 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

does it not neutralize ballparks?

Ray Guilfoyle
www.faketeams.com
www.minorleagueball.com
www.mlbdailydish.com

by Ray Guilfoyle on Oct 10, 2025 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes

But it does not indicate future success, as competition is not measured, nor is HR/FB rate, which gives Cain a huge boost.

by dudedudedude on Oct 10, 2025 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

sooooo

you can say that about any pitcher then…..no one can track future competition. You don’t know who will get hurt, who will break out, who will have a bad year…..right?

Ray Guilfoyle
www.faketeams.com
www.minorleagueball.com
www.mlbdailydish.com

by Ray Guilfoyle on Oct 10, 2025 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

HR/FB rate

I remember other sites bashing Kershaw last offseason saying his HR/FB rate was not sustainable and he would have a down year this year. strikeouts, groundballs and pop ups lead to low HR/FB rates.

Ray Guilfoyle
www.faketeams.com
www.minorleagueball.com
www.mlbdailydish.com

by Ray Guilfoyle on Oct 10, 2025 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not discounting what Cain did this season

He pitched very well, but it doesn’t mean he will pitch very well again, because that’s not what WAR is meant to do.

If he stays in San Fran, Cain is a fine pitcher, but once he leaves, he’s not.

To your comment below, Cain doesn’t have any of those. He gives up a lot of long fly balls that just don’t leave the park. Imagine that in Yankee stadium.

by dudedudedude on Oct 10, 2025 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

he doesn't give up that many long fly balls actually.

his GB% has actually increased this year.

Adoptive father of 18th round draft pick and future ace, BRANDON ALLEN

by Nnamdi Asomugha on Oct 10, 2025 10:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lincecum, Kershaw >>>>> Cain

But neither of them would be as good as they are in the AL East. Halladay is pitching way better in the NL then he ever did in the AL.

Back in 08, Cain had a 3.91 FIP and a 4.38 SIERA. Those are far from stellar number.

League adjusted is NL average FIP vs AL average FIP. One league is usually tougher than the other so when calculating WAR, they get a slight boost.

Competition adjusted would be who you pitch against directly since pitching against the NL isn’t the same as pitching against the NL West for example, but they don’t adjust for that, so Matt Cain’s value is skewed.

by dudedudedude on Oct 10, 2025 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

can you produce one article that talks about this pitching philosophy with a quote from someone in the Giants organization?

I am not saying the stats aren’t convincing, but I’m pretty sure even Dave Righetti doesn’t have an explanation for it.

by Lucretius on Oct 10, 2025 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

the giants would never trade matt cain for jesus montero

Adoptive father of 18th round draft pick and future ace, BRANDON ALLEN

by Nnamdi Asomugha on Oct 10, 2025 1:49 PM EDT reply actions  

From a Sox perspective

OK…. I’m still a (somewhat bitter) Red Sox fan….. so I have no interest in making the Yankees better. That being said:

The Yankees aren’t getting any younger… A-rod… Jeter etc. are getting up there… and neither can be counted on for 162 games anymore. Only two of the starting nine under 30 are Gardner and Cano. They could use a young player to transition to the next generation (shiver). Montero isn’t a gold glover…. so he would probably spend some time behind the plate… but most likely wind up spelling Teixera at 1B playing some DH…and maybe a little outfield. It would be some young depth for a team that is middle aged. Anybody ever discuss giving Montero a 3B mitt?

Cain? even a 4.00 era would net him a winning record on that team…. he’s going to get 5-6 runs of support…. 200 innings and 15 wins would be just what the Yankees need.

But why spend 15 million to get Cain? they’re better off keeping the cheaper younger Montero and trying to get an undervalued arm in free agency for a little less money…. and if there’s any money left in the bank… try to score a player that can give them infield depth. And not Nunez…. he’s got a slugging percentage under .400.

Being a Red Sox fan I don’t want the Yankees to get any better… we’re going to have a hard enough time with Tampa.

by Bob_24798 on Oct 10, 2025 6:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Cain is a very good pitcher

I think his ERA would rise significantly if he went to the AL East, but I think some of you are forgetting that this is a guy who shut down the Rangers and Phillies last postseason. He’s not on the level of Lee, Halladay, Kershaw, Verlander, etc. but he’d be a big asset to any team, xFIP be damned.

by Lucretius on Oct 10, 2025 8:35 PM EDT reply actions  

3.14 away ERA over the last 3 years, career ERA+ of 125

by Lucretius on Oct 10, 2025 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

say hello to not listening to reason

Adoptive father of 18th round draft pick and future ace, BRANDON ALLEN

by Nnamdi Asomugha on Oct 10, 2025 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh boy

Small sample size is reason now? Spring training stats are important now too.

by dudedudedude on Oct 10, 2025 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

there are multiple things people have said, you just aren't listening.

Adoptive father of 18th round draft pick and future ace, BRANDON ALLEN

by Nnamdi Asomugha on Oct 10, 2025 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Like what?

That his competition is equal? Wrong.

That Righetti is a magician? He might be, but the park and the competition help.

That his road ERA proves otherwise? Not the AL East, not AL East parks.

xFIP be damned? Good one.

There is nothing that proves that he will be good in the AL East, and to prove HR/FB rates aren’t always sustainable, I’ve got some examples.

Pedro Martinez: 981 innings pitched - 8.0%
Pedro Martinez: Next 154 innings pitched - 14.2%

John Lackey: 1,162 innings pitched - 8.5%
John Lackey: Next 715 innings pitched - 10.3%

HR/FB rates are volatile over a career and can change at any moment, due to a variety of factors. Do the Yankees really want that risk that with Matt Cain? If he loses his Righetti magic, he’s toast, and even with it, he’s not nearly as good as his WAR this season. No, I’m am not ignoring multiple things, I’m using logic, something you feel the need to remove from your thought process.

by dudedudedude on Oct 10, 2025 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

how do you explain

CC Sabathia’s low HR/FB rate? He’s not a buge strikeout pitcher….well, he’s huge….but his K rate isnt much higher than Cains…

Ray Guilfoyle
www.faketeams.com
www.minorleagueball.com
www.mlbdailydish.com

by Ray Guilfoyle on Oct 10, 2025 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Variety of things

Gets his fair share of groundballs and has great control to keep it low in the zone but one the biggest factor are his opponents.

Secondly, the AL East isn’t exactly a breeding ground for right handed power as it is with lefties. You’ve got Bautista and Longoria who are likely to crack 30 homers and that’s hit, from the non-Yankees anyways. It’s a lefty dominated division power wise.

He’s also pretty average at home but suppresses them like crazy away from Yankee stadium.

by dudedudedude on Oct 11, 2025 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

lefties*

Adoptive father of 18th round draft pick and future ace, BRANDON ALLEN

by Nnamdi Asomugha on Oct 11, 2025 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

First off I don't think Matt Cain is a top of the line starter, he is in the NL West, most other places he is a solid #2.

With that said to say he is not better than Marcum, crazy. He didn’t even really show improvement this year when switching leagues

Competition- Of course not, but you are exaggerating it the effects heavily. You don’t pitch against divisional rivals every time out.Cain is still getting better, he just had the lowest FIP total of his career and his GB% increased. Technically he hasn’t even entered the prime of his career yet.Y
One of the reasons the NL West is weak is because the Giants are one of the weak hitting teams and have been pretty much every season since Cain has been in the majors. Also, once again, when you are pitching for either the Yankees or the Red Sox that cuts out one of those powerhouse teams. The Diamondbacks scored nearly the same amount as runs this year as the Jays. this year and the Rockies have scored more runs than the Jays over the past 5 years.

Of course the park and competition help but Giants pitchers over tens of thousands of innings have had low HR/FB rates. Once again even the BIGGEST believers in xFIP say that there are pitchers who outperform those numbers. Tom Tango, the creator of FIP, has said that it takes a pitcher 6-7 seasons to prove it and guess what Matt Cain has been in the league for exactly 6 full seasons plus 40 extra innings. Baseball Musings wrote an article about Matt Cain’s late rising fastball being one of the reasons: http://baseballmusings.com/?p=61651

I don’t think any of us would take a large bet on Cain’s luck either running out or continuing. The stats just aren’t out there to prove either way. I’ll throw it up to two baseball fans with differing opinions.

Adoptive father of 18th round draft pick and future ace, BRANDON ALLEN

by Nnamdi Asomugha on Oct 11, 2025 12:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

So what happened with Pedro and Lackey?

Just because a player does X for Y amount of time, it does not mean that X will continue.

As for having 6 seasons, there’s many cases that prove just the opposite. You can skew the numbers either way.

Look at the Cain’s progression throughout the past 5 seasons. As the division has gotten weaker, so have his peripherals.

AL East teams (excluding New York) scored over 300 more runs than NL West teams (Excluding San Francisco, which averages out to about .75 more runs per game. That’s a pretty huge gap.

But how much of all the HR/FB success of the Giants is because of the park and the competition?

HR/FB at home by the Giants = 6.2%
HR/FB away from home by the Giants = 7.7%

There’s a huge gap already, even though a large number of games away are played in pitchers parks against super weak competition. Sorry, Cain won’t come close to his numbers in San Fran if he pitched in the AL East, and Marcum already proved he can have success in the AL East, and that’s with having to face the Yankees.

Marcum > Cain

by dudedudedude on Oct 11, 2025 12:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

if i was San fran i wouldnt trade cain for montero unless i knew for sure i wouldnt be able to sign him.

The yankees would probably like it alot though. Sabathia Cain nova brunnette and garcia or hughes is a pretty nice rotation.

by Jt Malley on Oct 10, 2025 9:13 PM EDT reply actions  

How?

There’s only one above average pitcher in that group.

by dudedudedude on Oct 10, 2025 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

one?

come on now…Cain is above average

Ray Guilfoyle
www.faketeams.com
www.minorleagueball.com
www.mlbdailydish.com

by Ray Guilfoyle on Oct 10, 2025 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

dont feed the troll

Adoptive father of 18th round draft pick and future ace, BRANDON ALLEN

by Nnamdi Asomugha on Oct 10, 2025 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions  


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