Prospect Rankings Discussion: A Quick Look at Baseball America's Top 100 Prospects List
We were lucky enough to receive another top 100 list today, this time from the guys over at Baseball America. Their list is the only one so far that comes from a group of experts, as opposed to one specific expert. Their list is also a little bit different in that they ranked both Yu Darvish, and Yoenis Cespedes, since both had signed when they prepared their list. You can find the whole list here, and here's their top 10:
1. Bryce Harper, WAS
2. Matt Moore, TAM
3. Mike Trout, LAA
4. Yu Darvish, TEX
5. Julio Teheran, ATL
6. Jesus Montero, SEA
7. Jurickson Profar, TEX
8. Shelby Miller, STL
9. Trevor Bauer, ARI
10. Dylan Bundy, BAL
- Cespedes ranked at #14 for them, which seems like it is in line with some of the other experts. That makes him the #3 outfielder on their list overall as well.
- Over at 3B, they have them ranked Sano, Rendon, Arenado, and then Olt. There's also a huge gap for them between Sano/Rendon and Arenado/Olt, which I personally don't know if I'd agree with the size of the gap.
- BA seems a bit more in line with the industry it seems on Hak-Ju Lee, that he's a solid prospect, but not elite quite yet.
- In the ongoing debate between Anthony Gose and Jake Marisnick, BA prefers Gose (39) over Marisnick (67) by a pretty solid margin.
- Something they mentioned on their podcast for the top 100 was just how strong the AL West clubs were, especially the Rangers. I hadn't really paid a ton of attention to it to this point, but there's a lot of highly ranked prospects in that division.
- I'm not sure I believe some of the ETAs that they provided, with Profar and Machado in 2013 and Sano in 2014. I tend to be a bit more conservative with ETAs, so that could be why.
- Matt Szczur really needs to have a big year this year to justify some of the rankings he's been receiving, and while it's possible, I'm not sold just yet.
- BA's list is the first time I've seen Christian Villanueva on a top 100, and I'll have to look into him a bit.
See someone specifically you think was ranked too highly or too lowly on the list? Think someone else should have broken into the top 10? Start the discussion below.
Keeping with previous lists, here's the "best lineup" based on their rankings:
C - Jesus Montero
1B - Yonder Alonso
2B - Nick Franklin*
3B - Miguel Sano
SS - Jurickson Profar
LF - Yoenis Cespedes
CF - Mike Trout
RF - Bryce Harper
DH - Manny Machado
SP1 - Matt Moore
SP2 - Yu Darvish
SP3 - Julio Teheran
SP4 - Shelby Miller
SP5 - Trevor Bauer
CL - Addison Reed
* - BA listed Franklin as a SS/2B. The top 2B only prospect on their list was Cory Spangenberg of the Padres.
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Really unimpressed
There were a lot of guys on this list who I thought were either ranked far too high or shouldn’t have been ranked.
Too high department:
Singleton at 34
Peacock at 36
Gose at 39
Olt at 43
Cozart at 50
Szczur at 64
Jungmann at 70
Too low:
Arenado at 42!!!!
Taveras at 74
Cuthbert at 84
Some of those were borderline laughable to me especially Arenado at 42 and Cuthbert at 84
by sportsfreak2744 on Feb 21, 2012 5:06 PM EST reply actions
How is Gose too high?
You’re talking about one of, if not the best athlete in the minors, with an upside very few can match in the minors. Add to the fact that he’s almost a lock to provide at least some value because of his unbelievable defense, speed and arm, that it would be foolish to exclude him from the top 40. There isn’t a single team in baseball that would say no to having a player like BJ Upton with much more defense as their starting CF.
Arenado is becoming extremely overrated. He won’t hit for much power, he hit well in the Cal League, but, it’s the Cal league, and he still has defensive questions. Consider Brett Lawrie last season. Much better bat, same defensive questions and he wasn’t ranked much higher. Arenado is fine, if not too high at 42.
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 21, 2012 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
I am getting over a very bad head cold
so forgive me, but I think I agree with dude here……shocking, I know. It might be a first…maybe second time…..we see eye to eye….lol.
But I agree that Cuthbert is too low.
Ray Guilfoyle
www.faketeams.com
www.minorleagueball.com
www.mlbdailydish.com
by Ray Guilfoyle on Feb 21, 2012 5:36 PM EST up reply actions
Arenado's defense
Consensus seems to be that he has answered the defensive questions well enough to stick at 3B, and some think he will be above-average there, now.
And, I must say, I am SHOCKED to see you jump to defend Anthony Gose. Just…flabbergasted.
lol
great point!!!
Ray Guilfoyle
www.faketeams.com
www.minorleagueball.com
www.mlbdailydish.com
by Ray Guilfoyle on Feb 21, 2012 5:46 PM EST up reply actions
It's magic how good offense suddenly leads to "he got better on D"
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 21, 2012 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
You should actually read about guys
before you spout off. Just because you think you’re smart, and everyone else is dumb, doesn’t mean you necessarily know what you are talking about. Sickels says “I also like his defense at third base, where he combines steadily-improving reliability with a strong arm and decent range.”
Baseball America says: Rockies prospect Nolan Arenado has improved significantly on his defense at third base.
SBNation: There once was concern about Arenado’s defense at third, but he’s worked to improve and those worries are now gone.
And that’s just from a cursory Google search. Come on, man.
You didn't understand my argument
When a player struggles to hit, he struggles to play D. When a player starts hitting well, suddenly, his defense isn’t that bad. It’s the Ryan Howard effect. People want to love offensive prospects, and they will talk themselves into it.
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 21, 2012 6:44 PM EST up reply actions
I did understand your argument
I just disagree. But, clearly, you’re the one who knows, and everyone else – people whose actual jobs are to evaluate prospects – is an idiot.
Some people are stock brokers for a living
It does not mean they are good stock brokers.
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 21, 2012 6:47 PM EST up reply actions
Excellent argument
I mean, really, you win. Knocked it out of the park. Even though every single prospect evaluator that I can find has mentioned Arenado’s defensive improvement, clearly they are all mistaken, and you are the only person who sees through their failings.
You couldn’t pay me enough to be a know-it-all teenager ever again. I imagine I was just as insufferable.
When you realize that you can be better than "experts"
You don’t care what the consensus is. You don’t have to agree with the consensus. The consensus right now? “Go Offense!!!” Figure out how many prospect “experts” underrated defense first prospects over the years?
People don’t like and don’t understand defense, that’s not a secret. When people do, I can start to respect there opinions.
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 21, 2012 6:59 PM EST up reply actions
Their*
Yikes that was bad.
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 21, 2012 6:59 PM EST up reply actions
don't you know
dude is the smartest dude on the planet?
Ray Guilfoyle
www.faketeams.com
www.minorleagueball.com
www.mlbdailydish.com
by Ray Guilfoyle on Feb 21, 2012 7:19 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry, that SBNation quote
actually came from MLB.com.
I'm not a fan of "athlete" prospects
There are serious questions over whether he can hit. Sorry, but I don’t care how fast you are if your hit tool is a major question. Gose does not compare to BJ as far as power either so that’s a bad comparison although hit tools may be the same: lacking.
Also, Arenado extremely overrated?! and won’t hit for much power? His swing and lightning quick wrist seem to suggest otherwise. He is a 20-30 HR guy in his prime with an OUTSTANDING hit tool. More XBH than K’s.
by sportsfreak2744 on Feb 21, 2012 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
And no way does Olt belong at 43
right behind Arenado. JOKE
by sportsfreak2744 on Feb 21, 2012 6:22 PM EST up reply actions
He doesn't need the hit tool to be a great player
If he hits .250, he’s a 5 WAR player. If he ever manages to hit .270 or .280, he’s putting up 8 WAR, and I don’t think anyone around him or below him has that sort of potential.
Good for Arenado, he has 1 plus tool. Gose has the same power upside, way more speed, way better defense, way more patience and an incredible arm. The fact that you want to argue that Arenado should be above Gose is foolish.
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 21, 2012 6:33 PM EST up reply actions
Calm down
No need to go calling anyone foolish. I would argue that Gose does not have Arenado’s power upside, in fact, and I would be far from alone. It’s great that you’re excited about one of your team’s prospects, but maybe check out what people more knowledgeable than you have to say about the guy. Sickels rates him Toronto’s #8 prospect, with A tools but C+ skills.
Quoting Sickels for prospects is like quoting a 2 year old for calculus
It means less than nothing.
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 21, 2012 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
OK, buddy
You clearly know more than everyone. Why should anyone bother debating with the all-knowing, all-seeing baseball guru that is dude3? Can I ever be forgiven? Jesus.
Because so few people understand value
And frankly, I don’t think Sickles is one of them.
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 21, 2012 6:45 PM EST up reply actions
seriously
why bash Sickels? I think he has established himself over the years as one of the best in the business. Not sure where you come off bashing him like that.
if you are going to make a statement like that, you should back it up with proof, or an explanation. Anyone can hide behind a fake name and jump on these blogs and flame one writer/reader after another.
Ray Guilfoyle
www.faketeams.com
www.minorleagueball.com
www.mlbdailydish.com
by Ray Guilfoyle on Feb 21, 2012 7:24 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not "bashing" Sickels
I’m saying I don’t agree with his prospect evaluations. But oh no, how dare I criticize someone who publicly posts rankings on the internet.
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 21, 2012 7:27 PM EST up reply actions
you can
maybe I misunderstood your comment above with the 2 year old reference……
what is the issue with quoting a prospect expert? if you disagree, just say so….no need to compare to a 2 year old…..
Ray Guilfoyle
www.faketeams.com
www.minorleagueball.com
www.mlbdailydish.com
by Ray Guilfoyle on Feb 21, 2012 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
I'm saying quoting other people, regardless of who it may be, its irrelevant
What I see, is totally different than what Sickels or any “expert” for that matter sees. As for Sickels’ assessment on Gose, it couldn’t be more wrong.
C+ tools? I don’t think so. His speed and baserunning is major league ready, his defense is major league ready, his arm is ridiculous, and I don’t see how an outfielder who throws 90 MPH with accuracy can have a C+ arm.
Sickels is looking at his offense, which isn’t surprising, as I said above, people like offense. Gose has 3 A tools right now, and it’s damn hard to argue otherwise.
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 21, 2012 7:44 PM EST up reply actions
And another mistake
That should be “3 A level skills”, not tools.
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 21, 2012 7:45 PM EST up reply actions
You've actually got it backwards
Gose has A level tools, but has so far translated them into C level skills. Tools = potential, skills = results.
by pooptallica on Feb 21, 2012 8:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
His arm, speed, and defense have been great
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 21, 2012 8:36 PM EST up reply actions
so how do you know he
has 3 A tools if you aren’t quoting anyone? have you scouted him?
Ray Guilfoyle
www.faketeams.com
www.minorleagueball.com
www.mlbdailydish.com
by Ray Guilfoyle on Feb 21, 2012 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, I've seen him play
His speed is absurd, and there’s no questioning that. He threw 90+ as a pitcher in high school and his arm was dead on accurate on all of his throws and he looked like a better version of Peter Bourjos in centerfield. The sample size is obviously small, but the only issue he has is his hit tool, which isn’t that big of a deal anyways considering how good his other skills are.
It’s an entirely different situation for fantasy purposes, but we are concerned with that in this discussion.
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 21, 2012 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
Please inform me
When the last time a hit tool wasn’t a big deal? It’s great that Gose can run like a deer and has a plus arm but his hit tool is lacking and he isn’t going to hit for power.
by sportsfreak2744 on Feb 22, 2012 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
Mike Stanton doesn't have a great hit tool
He has tons of power. Replace that power with absurd speed and defense and you have Gose.
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 22, 2012 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
Stanton still strikes out less in the majors
than Gose has in the minors. Plus, speed becomes irrelevant if you can’t get on base.
Except for the fact that he's had an OBP above .348 the past 3 seasons
All while being young for the levels he was playing at.
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 22, 2012 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
Except that
He actually had an OBP of .332 at high-A in 2010, split between the Phillies and Jays systems, and an OBP of .323 for the entire 2009 season in low-A with the Phillies.
So, you’re actually completely wrong. But nice try.
by pooptallica on Feb 23, 2012 12:43 AM EST up reply actions
You keep using the word "absurd"
Gose’s speed tool is pretty consistently ranked a 70 on the 20-80 scale. That’s fast, yes, but absurd? No.
We get it, you have a huge crush on the guy, just try to keep it in your pants when posting around here, y’know?
His defense is an 80
His arm is an 80.
There’s 3 way above average tools.
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 22, 2012 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
So let's have some fun with value
Let’s assume Gose makes zero progression whatsoever. We can use an equivalency calculator to figure out what his AA numbers look like at the major league level. It translates to a wOBA on par with what Alex Rios did this past season, which is god awful. It’s about -24 runs worth of offense.
He receives 2 runs for his positional adjustment, let’s be conservative and say another 3 runs for his baserunning, and 24 runs for replacement value. Just from that alone, he is a replacement level player, but this isn’t including his defense.
We are looking at a great defensive center fielder, with the potential to be the best in the league, so you can add whatever figure you like to get his value.
A 21 year old who just finished AA while being told not to bunt, who is able to put up replacement level value in center fielder is extremely rare. Either prospect “experts” don’t see any progression on Gose’s part, don’t see him as a good defender, see everyone around him as true superstars, or are wrong.
Yes, his contact issues suck, but he doesn’t need great contact to be good, and most people seem to be overlooking that fact.
His floor is high, and his ceiling is beyond absurd. There is no denying how good he is now, and how good can become, unless you’re stuck in the 60’s and still don’t believe in defense.
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 21, 2012 8:48 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe take off those blue-jay-tinted glasses
Gose’s floor is not high, his floor is the floor of a guy who struck out 25% in high-A, 29% the next year in rookie ball, followed by 26% at AA, and who may never develop the contact skills to be a regular major league ballplayer. THAT is his floor. You seem to think his floor is as a guaranteed starting centerfielder, and that is what is actually absurd. Nobody is saying he doesn’t have the potential to be a superstar, but saying that his potential range begins at guaranteed starter and ends at best centerfielder in history is patently ridiculous. If he strikes out 30% of the time at the MLB level, which is entirely possible, then he becomes Austin Jackson with maybe slightly more pop. And that is something you need to understand and deal with, EVEN THOUGH HE IS IN THE JAYS’ SYSTEM.
And Austin Jackson isn't an awful player
He is above replacement. I understand his contact woes are there but his other skills make him a really good player, Jays goggles, or not.
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 21, 2012 9:37 PM EST up reply actions
And I would say AJax is probably close to his median range
Gose’s floor is as a bench player with excellent defense, but a .210 BA and sub-.300 OBP.
So you're assuming he gets worse?
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 22, 2012 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
Against much better pitching?
Yes, I’m saying it’s a distinct possibility. His floor is Willie Mays Hayes, in fact. May never be able to hit the breaking pitch.
He could hit .220 against major league pitching at this point
His ability to take a walk has never been an issue, so you are looking at some serious regression here.
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 22, 2012 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
For those too young to have seen Major League
http://media.egotvonline.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/13-wesley-snipes-as-willie-mays-hayes.jpg
“I hit like Mays, and I run like Hayes!”
“You may run like Hayes, but you hit like shit.”
Explain
This 24 runs of replacement value you’ve decided to award him, please. I’m not understanding where this comes from.
The replacement level of a center fielder in the American League is about 24 runs
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 22, 2012 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
dude
you were going good until you threw in this:
“There is no denying how good he is now, and how good can become, unless you’re stuck in the 60’s and still don’t believe in defense.”
to whom are you talking? are there prospect experts who are stuck in the 60s? explain.
Ray Guilfoyle
www.faketeams.com
www.minorleagueball.com
www.mlbdailydish.com
by Ray Guilfoyle on Feb 22, 2012 8:41 AM EST up reply actions
I think
It’s just part of his general “vaguely insult anyone with whom I disagree” philosophy.
You should really read my sig
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 22, 2012 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
Everyone
Defense is still criminally underrated, in prospects and in major league players.
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 22, 2012 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
if Gose makes no progression from here
He is not a big leaguer.
Sorry to burst your bubble.
by sportsfreak2744 on Feb 22, 2012 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
There are plenty of worse players then him
Plenty of which are starting.
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 22, 2012 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
For real
Sickels has proven for years that he has a very high level of understanding when it comes to prospect evaluation. He publishes an intensely-researched book every year, and is a well-respected and established member of the prospecting community. What have you done, dude, other than being a contrarian loudmouth who likes to argue and manipulate numbers? Comparing Sickels to a 2-year-old performing calculus just comes across as petulant name-calling, to me.
dudedudedude
You talk about being ‘stuck in the 60s’ yet you bust on the MLE calculator on us! Considering the amount of criticism those get due to their inaccuracies, how can you come off so better-than-thou?
by sportsfreak2744 on Feb 22, 2012 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
They are not inaccurate because they provide flawed statistics
They are inaccurate because they assume no progression or regression towards the mean, which in this case, I was 100% content with doing, to prove a point that Anthony Gose with no progression is still a big leaguer, which can’t be said about most prospects.
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 22, 2012 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
Ann Coulter publishes researched pieces as well
Does that mean you have to agree with her? Or have you yet to realize that it is possible to disagree with someone.
I don’t understand where I manipulate numbers. I understand numbers. There’s a difference, but hey, numbers make a player I like look bad, so they must be wrong.
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 22, 2012 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
How would you know if Ann Coulter does any research?
I would assume that all the pages are pretty stuck together by now in all of your copies of her books.
It doesn't have to be Ann Coulter
Pick anyone you disagree with, which usually involves someone intelligent…
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 22, 2012 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
It's funny how defensive you get
and how obsessively you have to denigrate those who disagree with you. You’ve become the new Real LT, just with a dictionary and some math books.
I think we’re done here.
You never answered my question
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 22, 2012 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
simmer down, kid.
Let's go Giants!!! clap clap clap-clap-clap
Let's go Giants!!! clap clap clap-clap-clap
Let's go Giants!!! clap clap clap-clap-clap
Arenado is being lauded
both for his improvement in defense AND his work ethic.
I can show you videos of all the drills he is doing at 3rd too if you’d like. He has made huge strides in his defense and that is usually what scouts/experts talk about first when Arenado is brought up.
by sportsfreak2744 on Feb 22, 2012 10:31 AM EST up reply actions
Like I said earlier
It’s amazing how many players have better work ethic and improved defense once their bat looks good. Who know, Arenado could hit enough to win a gold glove some day.
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 22, 2012 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
You're clearly not paying attention to Arenado then
He’s been working on defense all offseason. You can kick and scream all you want but it won’t change what so many scouts/experts are saying about Arenado or Gose.
And until further notice, they are infinitely more reliable than you.
by sportsfreak2744 on Feb 22, 2012 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
That's great
A 300 pound man works on his cardio, it doesn’t make him fit.
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 22, 2012 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
reading your comments here
i think it could be pretty fairly said you have no idea what you’re talking about in prospect valuation, especially as concerns arenado and gose
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
by papality on Feb 22, 2012 3:23 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Woopty Fucking Do
I rip on a player someone likes, people cry.
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 22, 2012 4:14 PM EST up reply actions
its rather obvious you're the one who's crying
and you dont really need to swear and be so defensive; your credibility is already zero, so you can’t really hurt it, but now you just look like a jackass
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
by papality on Feb 22, 2012 5:24 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
It's scary how people get so upset over words
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 22, 2012 5:42 PM EST up reply actions
it's scary you can't see past your own homerism and objectively valuate a guy who struck out 30% of the time in rookie ball as a 21 year old
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
I would try those stats again
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 22, 2012 6:29 PM EST up reply actions
guys
please refrain from the foul language here.
If it happens again, this comments thread will be shut down.
Also, let’s refrain from the name calling…..it adds no value whatsoever to the topics.
Ray Guilfoyle
www.faketeams.com
www.minorleagueball.com
www.mlbdailydish.com
by Ray Guilfoyle on Feb 22, 2012 6:34 PM EST up reply actions
He was 20
Since his birthday is in August, he was 20 when he played 29 games with the Jays’ rookie ball Desert Dogs, but, yes, he struck out 29.7% of the time. So, beyond the swing of a couple of months, there, his stats are correct.
Right
So let’s totally ignore his AA games and focus on a stat that doesn’t stabilize for 600+ plate appearances. Logic is fantastic.
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 22, 2012 7:05 PM EST up reply actions
I never said to focus on it
But he still struck out 26.2% of the time at AA. Not a massive improvement.
In any case, your attitude is so repulsive as to make any argument you might make easy to ignore.
26.2 K% in 587 PAs
do those not count?
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
also his Ks increased as the season went on, and his BBs decreased
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
I already know he strikes out a lot
Everyone does, but thankfully, there is more to baseball than just a hit tool.
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 22, 2012 7:17 PM EST up reply actions
increasing strikeouts and decreasing walks throughout the season
suggest an inability to adjust which, regardless of how fast he might be, will prevent him from become a decent major league player, if one at all
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
no one's saying he's not a good prospect
just not the #1 be-all and end-all of prospects you seem to think he is
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
goldstein's 68 is a much better spot for him than BA's 39
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
Once again, I never said he was the number 1 prospect
I said he was underrated. People are so inconsistent their evaluations. Mike Stanton strikes out a ton, his plate discipline will improve because he’s Mike Stanton. Anthony Gose strikes out a ton, he will regress, because he’s Anthony Gose.
Where is the logic? You have someone young for his level in the midst of changing his entire approach because of a new system where they are restricting what he is allowed to do and yet, he will never improve. I’m fine with saying he strikes out a ton, and I wouldn’t be shocked if he never strikes out less than 20% of the time, but his other skills are way more impressive than other people give him credit for.
His power is average for a center fielder and his hit tool is weak, which means people won’t like him because they can’t contribute to their fantasy teams, but a super fast, super athletic, incredible defender with massive upside is more valuable than people want to believe.
If people want to make assertions to players skillsets, fine, do so but be consistent.
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 22, 2012 7:28 PM EST up reply actions
stanton both cut his strikeouts and increased his walks from 2010 to 2011
and was in the big leagues as a 20 year old, while gose was King 30% of the time in rookie ball at the same age. stanton’s first tour of AA was ugly, yeah, but he was 19 years old, and he still walked 9% of the time, and when he went back in 2010, he has a nearly even BB/K driven by an absurd 18.1 BB%. gose can’t even dream of that kind of walk rate.
so why aren’t you drooling all over billy hamilton, since they’re comparably fast and skilled defensively?
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
what makes you so absolutely certain that gose's discipline will improve?
given that there’s absolutely nothing to suggest it will, as he goes on and faces better and better pitching
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
I never said it would
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 22, 2012 7:51 PM EST up reply actions
you imply that's what you think
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
No
In fact, I mentioned that I never thought he would have a great hit tool. What I did say however, is that consistency in evaluations is important.
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 22, 2012 7:56 PM EST up reply actions
whether you think you're implying it or not is irrelevant
you’re implying it; at the very least, you’re implying that you think he will maintain his overall 2011 AA line, despite the fact that he got significantly worse as the season went on
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
the problem is
they are players with different tools. What is acceptable for a guy with 80 power is not as acceptable for a guy with 80 speed. Apples and oranges.
Ray Guilfoyle
www.faketeams.com
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by Ray Guilfoyle on Feb 22, 2012 8:10 PM EST up reply actions
High quality defense
Is the same as high quality offense. Whether or not a players gets 30 runs from being a great center fielder or getting 30 runs from power does not matter, it’s still 30 runs.
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 22, 2012 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
no one is a +30 CF
that’s ridiculous; plenty of people however are +30 hitters
Trolling the Offseason: Starring Jamie Moyer, Directed by Dan O'Dowd, with Executive Producers Dick and Charlie Monfort
Gutierrez is might close
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 22, 2012 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
dude
do you always have to come off as arrogant? Seriously. The jabs here and there are uncalled for. I would appreciate you showing everyone more respect here.
Ray Guilfoyle
www.faketeams.com
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by Ray Guilfoyle on Feb 22, 2012 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
Sarcasm doesn't exist without stupidity
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 22, 2012 7:18 PM EST up reply actions
Fake Teams will exist without dude if you keep this shit up!!!!
Ray Guilfoyle
www.faketeams.com
www.minorleagueball.com
www.mlbdailydish.com
by Ray Guilfoyle on Feb 22, 2012 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
Oh no the world is ending
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 22, 2012 7:29 PM EST up reply actions
you don't know when to stop do you?
I think I have been pretty fair with you here, dude/….cut the shit.
Ray Guilfoyle
www.faketeams.com
www.minorleagueball.com
www.mlbdailydish.com
by Ray Guilfoyle on Feb 22, 2012 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
Wow
You really are the new Real LT. You should be so proud.
This is the proboards all over again
I make arguments, you call names and refuse to have a legitimate point of view. We all know how that worked out for you.
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 22, 2012 7:57 PM EST up reply actions
glad I missed that
Ray Guilfoyle
www.faketeams.com
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by Ray Guilfoyle on Feb 22, 2012 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
Ok, buddy
How did that work out for me, again? I believe it ended with you voicing your support for Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy, and me getting so disgusted that I walked away from the argument.
Which is what I’m doing here. You can take that as a win for you, if you want, since your rampant insecurity seems to need it so badly.
Did they
piss in his Molson? wow.
Ray Guilfoyle
www.faketeams.com
www.minorleagueball.com
www.mlbdailydish.com
by Ray Guilfoyle on Feb 22, 2012 8:02 PM EST up reply actions
Feel free to read it Ray
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 22, 2012 8:18 PM EST up reply actions
I'm trying to think of a response to this without name-calling
But, really, I think the kind of person you are has become painfully evident to anyone and everyone.
I'd try something new
Stop focusing on the semantics and start focusing on the arguments. No matter how many times you say I’m an ass, it doesn’t make your arguments any better, nor is it a valid counter point to stats.
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 22, 2012 7:52 PM EST up reply actions
I have used the stats, plenty, in fact
And the fact is, I actually happen to think Gose will be a pretty good major leaguer, possibly a great one.
What I am trying to impress upon you is that your awful attitude, condescension, arrogance, and generally dick-ishness makes everyone want to disagree with you no matter what. The way you act is to your own detriment, in these types of arguments, and in life in general. Respecting dissenting opinions, and disagreeing without insulting will do you much better in life than constantly having to seem like you’re so much better and smarter than all these idiots who deign to debate you.
hello
Marcus (Kentucky): How come Miguel Sano ranks so high in comparison to players that seem very similar and are more proven than him such as Nolan Arenado, Xander Bogaerts, or Cheslor Cuthbert?
Jim Callis: His power upside puts him ahead of those guys. He has well above-average power, maybe as much as any prospect besides Bryce Harper.
interesting
Ray Guilfoyle
www.faketeams.com
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Sano is a physical beast
And he’s just now 18? maybe just barely 19, I don’t feel like checking. So it’s assumed that he will get even bigger over the next few years, which puts his power potential into the absolute elite realm. But also means he is extremely unlikely to stick at 3B.
true
I think he is already up to 235 lbs….I guess first base or LF will be in his future.
Ray Guilfoyle
www.faketeams.com
www.minorleagueball.com
www.mlbdailydish.com
by Ray Guilfoyle on Feb 21, 2012 5:47 PM EST up reply actions
In my other keeper league
There’s a guy who has owned Sano since he was 15. Seems a little ridiculous, but it looks like it will pay off for him. I kind of like our rule that you can pick up anyone, of any age. Bryce Harper was owned at age 16.
I like that rule as well
need to add it to the FT Dynasty league rules…….remove dude from the rules throne!!!!
Ray Guilfoyle
www.faketeams.com
www.minorleagueball.com
www.mlbdailydish.com
by Ray Guilfoyle on Feb 21, 2012 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
Well
you might have a bit more sway if you’d go ahead and SIGN UP FOR THE YAHOO LEAGUE. It’s all set up, we’re just waiting on you and TJ so everyone’s rosters can be input. ;)
lol
sorry about that……I saw your email this morning. Will take care of it tonight.
I need to check my Google email more, I guess.
Did I get those studs Loney, McGehee and Laroche??
Ray Guilfoyle
www.faketeams.com
www.minorleagueball.com
www.mlbdailydish.com
by Ray Guilfoyle on Feb 21, 2012 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
Interesting definitions of “studs” you’ve got there Ray…
Writer at FakeTeams
Writer at MLB Daily Dish
Yep
You got em all. At the low, low price of $1/1 year. I thought about outbidding you for LaRoche, but mistakenly thought that Daniel Murphy was still available and put in a (now invalid) claim for him, instead.
If that is true
check out the numbers that Eddie Rosario put up in the same league / team as him.
also moving to 2b = fantasy gold
by BigG'S on Feb 21, 2012 6:17 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Is this about Sano?
There is absolutely zero chance of him moving to 2B. He’s destined for LF or 1B. He’s 6’3"-4", and listed at 195-200lbs. in most places, but has been rumored to have already grown, as Ray said, up to possibly 235lbs (Prospect Instinct lists him at 230). He’s Miggy’s size, or will be, but likely not as fat.
Rosario
Did put up some serious numbers for Elizabethton. Is he moving to 2B? Some links seem to indicate that. He’s 2 years older than Sano, though, so age relative to league should temper the awe of those 2011 stats a bit.
Anthony Gose is garbage.
Let's go Giants!!! clap clap clap-clap-clap
Let's go Giants!!! clap clap clap-clap-clap
Let's go Giants!!! clap clap clap-clap-clap
This is what happens when New York fans try and add to discussions.
If you want to say dumb things, you can't get mad when I call you dumb.
by dudedudedude on Feb 22, 2012 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
BA's Badler on Arenado-dated June 3rd
Posted Jun. 3, 2010 11:28 am by Ben Badler
Filed under: Daily Dish
If you’re looking for a prospect with serious helium, meet Nolan Arenado.
Arenado, the Rockies’ second-round pick last year, began the year in extended spring training, but since he joined low Class A Asheville two weeks ago, the 19-year-old third baseman has shown why his bat is so highly regarded.
Arenado has a hit in 11 of his 12 games and is batting .380/.414/.560 with as many walks (five) as strikeouts. Sure, he’s benefiting from a hitter-friendly environment in Asheville, so the power numbers will probably come down, but Arenado’s hitting is no mirage. He’s a balanced hitter with barrel awareness and an excellent approach at the plate, with power that could come down the line. If he keeps this up, he just might be the Rockies’ best position prospect by the end of the year. A shortstop in high school, Arenado has made a smooth transition to third, where he’s projected as an above-average defender.
Ray Guilfoyle
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www.mlbdailydish.com
To be fair
This is from June 3, 2010. Arenado did display some defensive woes that year, though he was sometimes projected as above-average, as he was here. He has worked very hard to adjust to the new position and the tougher leagues, and has apparently gotten to the point where he is expected to be at least average at 3B, which is what everyone is currently praising him for.
Wow! Gose must be a top 10 prospect
Absurd speed tool
80 defense tool
80 arm tool
same power upside with Arenado, whose only plus tool is power
hitting skill being able to make .220 against ML pitching AT THIS POINT
The hypothetical player dude just described is basically ‘(Harper + Trout) / 2 maybe with a little less hitting for average skill’ . He should be at least our top 10 guy, not just 39.

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