Fantasy Basketball: How Shaq Managed to Marginalize His Legacy

by ZombieMonta on May 16, 2011 5:22 PM EDT in Fantasy Basketball

To say that Shaquille O'Neal used to be Dwight Howard would be a gross underestimate. Howard on his best day was never even half as good as Shaq. It took Dwight Howard seven years of growth to get where he is now: a physical beast and MVP-runner-up who averaged 22.9 points per game last year along with 14.1 rebounds and 2.4 blocks. Now compare that to Shaqulle O'Neal's first season in the NBA, way back in 1992 when he played for the Orlando Magic: 23.4 points, 13.4 rebounds, 3.5 blocks per game.

Assessing it from a purely fantasy perspective, all you need to know about Shaq is that as good and dominating as Dwight Howard is now, Shaquille O'Neal was better than him from the crib.

Considering the age in which Wilt Chamberlain racked up his points and how far the game has since evolved, it's hard not to declare O'Neal the most dominating bigman of all time. He racked up ten consecutive seasons with at least 26 points per game, something only he, Michael Jordan and Allen Iverson have done over the past 30 years. He changed the fabric of the game, and was so dominating during the 2000 playoffs that on two different occasions his opponents spent the entire fourth quarter doing nothing but fouling him. He shot 27 free-throws in Game 1 of the Western Conference Finals against Portland, and a record-breaking 39 free-throws against the Pacers in Game 2 of the finals. Teams would use so many fouls on him that they'd bring previously-unrecognizable bigs off the bench to do nothing but hack him -- or play defense against him, incase the regular center fouled out, which happened a lot.

He deserved to go out with his dominance fresh in everyone's mind, so that we wouldn't have to remind ourselves how great he used to be. Which is why it was such a shame for him to go out the way he did. Rather than remaining in L.A., O'Neal hopped from team to team in his final years, from Miami to Phoenix to Cleveland to Boston. He rapidly descended into role player territory, with his old knees eliminating his ability to back defenders down and forcing him into becoming a jump-hook specialist. He seemed incapable of staying healthy, with the story always being that something would happen to him in the spring, causing him to miss half the season, but that he'd be back by the playoffs. Except that wasn't the case this year, his first and hopefully only one in Boston. In between injuries, he managed only a pair of postseason appearances in a green Celtics uniform, producing merely 2 points and 4 fouls in a combined 12 minutes of action.

Even worse, he became irrelevant to fantasy owners. Here we had one of the five best centers of all time, one of the top ten scorers in league history, and suddenly he was no longer useful. This was one of the greatest players ever, a guy you would dream of building your fantasy team around, and yet he was less valuable than Darko Milicic and Nicolas Batum and Marco Belinelli last year. Fantasy owners would see him on the waiver wire, consider picking him up and literally have to tell themselves, "No, he sucks now." What an awful way to go out. No one that good should ever have to be marginalized in the eyes of sports fans.

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95% of superstars go out like this. It won't be what we remember about Shaq.

You yourself said he was the most dominating big man of all-time, so think about that. He couldn’t stay that way forever and we all knew this was coming. Kobe Bryant won’t retire before he’s a 15 PPG scorer. Allen Iverson went out even worse than Shaq. Nobody points to Jordan’s 2 years in Washington unless its “Hey, remember when MJ played for Washington” and the person responds “Ohhh yeah”

Players have a hard time letting go and it doesn’t hurt to squeeze out every last dime in the NBA while they’re still willing to pay you. Shaq shouldn’t have the financial problems of most former NBA players, but he earned the right to go out there again this year.

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by Kenneth Arthur on May 16, 2011 5:35 PM EDT reply actions

My two cents worth

Lots of athletes from Joe Louis to Pete Rose has a “tragic” ending that could have dimmed their legacy…..

Some guys go out early (Like Koufax) from injury….

It reminds me of rock stars and movie stars…. if they burn out young then they will always be remembered that way…… Like Jim Morrison (who was on the greased slide to fat balding guy)… but we will always remember the Lizard King in his leather outfit.

Was he useless in Boston…. no… i’m a Celtics fan… and when he was on the court he still had flashes of the old Shaq….. he was on TV every 5 minutes… shopping mall here…. walk in the park there….. I would rather have seen him rehabbing (Is that a word?)

Fantasy relevance? If you checked the lineups he was still a good play on the nights he was in…. he could still get you a double double and 3 or 4 blocks. Look at his numbers compared to the mighty Kendrick Perkins… and it wasn’t a big difference.

I remember what a flawed genius he was in his prime…. if he could have hit free throws he would have been one of the best three centers to play the game.

I just wish he had the chance to play against Kobe in the finals this year… it would have been epic.

by Bob_24798 on May 16, 2011 8:34 PM EDT reply actions

By what definition is he not one of the 3 best centers of all-time?

And there are different ways to look at it. But if you looked at in the way of “What if Shaq played against Wilt?” I think its clear the Shaq is the best center of all-time. If its compared to the rest of the league during a player playing days.. I still don’t see a scenario in which he’s not at least one of the top 3 centers of all-time. I’d be interested to hear the argument though.

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by Kenneth Arthur on May 16, 2011 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions

My argument?

Kareem… not the dominant rebounder…. but the skyhook was lethal in the closing minutes…. I know Kareem was criticized for being soft…. but the numbers do not lie…. in the last two minutes who would you rather have with the ball Kareem or Shaq?

Bill Russell…. don’t even have to explain that one

Olajowan… deserves a mention…. look at the numbers
Mikan was a force in his day
Willis reed….. Moses Malone
David “The admiral” Robinson
Patrick Ewing…..

All honorable mentions

But what it really comes down to is Shaq vs Chamberlain….Chambelrain was a freak… if he didn’t have the misfortune of playing in the same era as the Aeurbach Celtics he would have had a few more rings under his belt. Granted it was a different era….. but he AVERAGED 30 points… 23 rebounds and 4.4 assists for his career…. he even lead the league in assists in 1967!

It’s like comparing Babe Ruth to Barry Bonds (Forget the PED’s for a sec)…. different eras….. but there were other players averaging 20 points 12 rebounds and 3.5 blocks per game during the Shaq era…. there were no 100 point per game scorers with the stats of Chamberlain…. he dominated his era. Jist like Ruth…. there were TEAMS that didn’t have Ruth’s statline… Bonds played in an era were everybody hit 50 homers (and with hind sight we now know why).

It’s not a big difference between Shaq and Wilt… same with Kareem…. if Shaq have could hit free throws he would have been my #3 easily pushing Kareem out….. but right now he’s my #4.

Just my opinion.

by Bob_24798 on May 16, 2011 9:13 PM EDT reply actions

I hear ya. That's why I'm asking.

Wilt was my favorite player as a kid. (I wasnt a kid when he played, but I awed at his stats growing up) I just think that in the context of the league, his ridiculous numbers, and Russells ridiculous rebounding numbers, have to be looked at in context.

I’m also aware of Ruths numbers and the context in which they happened.

There is no right or wrong answer, but it is an interesting case. Personally I take Shaq over Russell.

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by Kenneth Arthur on May 16, 2011 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions

I might go Wilt-Shaq-Kareem-Russell

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by Kenneth Arthur on May 16, 2011 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions

nonono

Russell-Wilt-Kareem-Shaq-Olajowon……..no way Shaq ahead of Russell.

Good post…..good comments here as well…..

personally, I am a Knicks fan, but for me, the NBA is hard to watch now. I was a huge Knicks fan from the Reed/Frazier days to the last days of Ewing….then after Van Gundy left…..I was done. Still follow them but haven’t watched in years.

Ray Guilfoyle
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www.minorleagueball.com

by Ray Guilfoyle on May 16, 2011 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions

I appreciate how good Russell was and the championships.

And I won’t go any further than that, haha.

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by Kenneth Arthur on May 16, 2011 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions

Appreciate the complement, comments

It’s true that every player retires as a shade of himself, but Shaq did the Gary Payton thing where he became sort of an NBA nomad, going from team to team to team. Basketball doesn’t do the baseball thing where you go into the Hall of Fame as a member of a team, which is too bad, because I’d be very curious to know what Shaq would retire as. He basically burned a bridge after every team he left — hates the Lakers owner, took a shot at Riley on the way out, became vilified in Orlando. It’d probably be with the Lakers, but I wonder if he’d consent to it.

I think Ray has got the top five locked down. I’d even keep the order; it’s subjective, but I would definitely say those are the top five centers ever. It’s interesting because I recently read Bill Simmons’ Book of Basketball, and his order of the best centers ever was: Russell, Kareem, Chamberlain, Olajuwon and Shaq.

Inhistoric -- the SB Nation blog devoted to sports history.

by ZombieMonta on May 16, 2011 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions

Follow up

I think the whole idea of what hat to wear is ridiculous…. the way teams fawned over ex players in baseball was ridiculous.

Interesting idea though… what hat would Shaq wear….. I’m thinking Orlando Unless he really wanted to tick Kobe off.

One more thing….. look at the stats… Wilt played 80 games a season almost every season…. AND even though the eras were different (I’m too tired to do the math) i’m pretty sure that Wilt’s scoring was a higher percentage of his teams offense than Shaq.

Checkout basketball-reference.com… they have a stat called win shares (have to think it’s similar to baseball) large career edge for Wilt there too…. both in totals and per 48 minutes.

The more I think about it…. the more comfortable I am placing Wilt over Shaq.

by Bob_24798 on May 16, 2011 10:59 PM EDT reply actions

One last thought before I go to bed

Shaq over Russell? huh?

Tough to justify… be curious to hear your thought process….

by Bob_24798 on May 16, 2011 11:00 PM EDT reply actions

Since you brought up win shares...

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by Kenneth Arthur on May 17, 2011 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions

Well since you mentioned it

1. Russell played in a time when blocked shots weren’t even counted…. tough to get a good statistical read on him…. unlike Chamberlain who had every point counted… Russell takes a hit there. when trying to evaluate him statistically

2. There are great fantasy players…. and there are great real world players… what? what did you say? Sorry… I can’t hear you…. i’m staring at all the banners hanging from the rafters of my beloved Garden.

3. One difference between Shaq and Russell…. Russell was all over the floor to help out on double teams… and would still get back to defend the basket. He was smaller and more mobile than Shaq. He was much more than just a shot blocker/rebounder. The stats just aren’t going to tell this story.

4. Russell faced a much more hostile environment his first few years in Boston….. and he wasn’t the kind to back down (nor should he have)… even with that external pressure he still brought his A game. Shaq can’t even handle Kobe :)

Side note:One of my favorite quotes… they asked Auerbach how he was going to handle Russell when he joined to Celtics…. Auerbach answered…. “You handle an animal….. you deal with a man”

I love ya Shaq….. glad I got to see you in the green…. but you’re the 4th best center of all time…..

By the way… did I mention George Mikan?

by Bob_24798 on May 17, 2011 6:07 PM EDT reply actions

Huh? I didn't mention any of that.

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by Kenneth Arthur on May 17, 2011 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions

shaq

shaq is better then wilt everyone knows that in the 60s the best players where not in the nba think of the time and wit was not the best center of his time russell was and russell was only ok think why M.L.K ring a bell

by Rutilio Medina on May 18, 2011 12:57 PM EDT reply actions