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Looking Back At The Fantasy Baseball Season And My Draft Strategy

What up all? I used to come on here more frequently, but lost track of things. Anyhow, another great season of fantasy baseball concluded for me! I played in two roto auction leagues, and I finished 1st in one of them, and third in another one of them! I've won at least one league every year, and it is rare for me to finish outside the first half. And yes, these are 12 team leagues, none of that weak 8 team junk!

If you've read anything I've posted here in the past, I am big on not paying much for pitchers. It's the strategy I go with, and this year (like most years) it worked out excellently. It's always very debated, but to me, pitchers typically are priced in a way that is backward-looking, and in fantasy sports, many of the traditional pitching stats are team dependent (wins, saves, ERA). What that means is 3 of the 5 statistics typically used can be very volatile. It's very difficult for a pitcher to put up consistent numbers in these categories. That's why typically the guys that do, are the guys to go to the hall of fame.

Raise your hand if you dropped $30+ for Greinke. I was on here trying to warn people it was going to be a waste, and it was. I had a guy in my league that paid $50 for Tim Lincecum. Crazy. How many on here had Jered Weaver as the 6th best starting pitcher in fantasy going into this year? He went for $7 in one of my leagues. What about Mat Latos? He went undrafted in my league, and ended up being a Top 20 fantasy pitcher this year. I paid $2 for Roy Oswalt, and he ended up being a Top 5 pitcher this year.

I didn't know he'd be as good as he was, but if he stunk it up like Greinke did, it'd be easy for me to let him go, rather than say "I spent $30 on him, he's gotta turn it around".. Greinke was owned in 90% of Yahoo leagues at the end of the year. No reason why the 70th-80th best pitcher should have that high of an ownership rate. But because people spent a high draft pick, or a high dollar amount on him, they needed to stick around with him.

Star-divide

In fantasy baseball, pitchers are like the stock market. You gotta diversify that portfolio to minimize the downside. If you want to get a solid guy for $15-$20 that's fine. But back that up with guys on the come-up for single digits. That way if one busts, you don't have all of your eggs in one basket. Greinke and Lincecum will down tick, Latos and Oswalt will jet up. They're the hot stocks now, and they will be priced at what they did last year, instead of what they realistically may do the following year. I'll probably end up staying away from them if they go for highly inflated prices.

But like the stock market, there are different types of investors. Most guys I play against are the high risk, high reward types, and they're either going to dominate the league, or get last.

I minimize my downside. I spend my money on hitting, which is less volatile to forecast. Roy Halladay is eventually going to get old and be done, but I bet the year he does that, he still goes for $40-$50. I'm just going to stay away, even if I miss out on a couple more Cy Young years, because I don't want to spend 20% of my payroll on one guy, when I have 24 roster spots to fill.

In the league I won, I spent $29 on all of my pitchers, and I had the second best pitching in the league. I was able to spend $231 on hitting, and if you're spending that much on hitting you better damn well have the best hitting in the league (which I did). If the $29 I spent on pitching backfired, I get 4th-6th in the league. If I perform middle of the road in pitching, I probably get 2nd in the league. But every year, I just want to contend, and this is the way it works for me. Also, the $231 I spent on hitting, allowed for me to make fantastic trades.

For example, my $231 team had Buster Posey, Prince Fielder, Dan Uggla, Brandon Phillips, Adrian Gonzalez, Ryan Braun, Dustin Pedroia, Nelson Cruz, Shin-Soo Choo, and others. Well, if you look at the list, I don't need 3 great 2B. So I took the hottest name, Dustin Pedroia (this is before he got injured and after he went on that tear to start April), and essentially got him for Ricky Romero, and Ryan Howard.

In fantasy sports, I'm all about getting the best value, which to me means minimizing my downside. Hey, I've had bad luck too. I spent good dollars on Ellsbury in the league I got 3rd in, and that didn't work out for me at all.  I'm not saying, "ha ha, I knew Roy Oswalt was going to tear it up", because I didn't. I just knew his track record, and knew that if he did horribly, I could let him go.

Is it possible to win a fantasy league being #1 in all pitching categories, and middle of the road in hitting? Sure. But I have yet to come across a guy who can win consistently year in, and year out with that, mostly because pitching tends to be more overpriced than hitting.

For me, my strategy worked out great, and I got lucky with some individual players. But with my strategy, I was put in a position where I couldn't do worse than middle-half (which is what I always strive for). I play to win, but in my now 14 years of playing fantasy baseball in multiple leagues, I can count on one hand the number of times I finished at the bottom on one hand, and most of those times where in those first few years where I was 12, 13, 14, and learning how it all worked, and developed my approach. 

How did your season go? How did your strategy work this year, and do you think you'll make any tweaks for next year? Sometimes you don't do well, not because of the strategy, but bad luck. Curious to hear about how all of you did.

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Mark -

It’s true that hitting is easier to predict than pitching – but when you enter a draft/auction where everybody knows that and goes with the same strategy (hitters first), then it turns out that the pitchers are under-valued. So I guess I’m saying, you have to adjust to your league…

by CelticPride on Oct 5, 2010 7:44 PM EDT reply actions  

That's true

Because you have to spend like $60 on Pujols. In a league like that, however, I’d try to nominate guys I don’t want that I think will go for too high. I was throwing out Aaron Hill and Ben Zobrist like a mofo in my leagues, lol!

But I do agree that you have to adjust for it… That said, in a league like that you can win with pitching because you aren’t going to be spending $40 on Lincecum.

But to me, I go on value. There isn’t a guy that I won’t draft, if the price is right for me. I would have drafted Greinke if I could have gotten him for $12 for example, and it would have been a bust. I just have yet to play in a league where 100% of the people have the same opinions as I do, and it’s usually the 3 or 4 of us that have a similar strategy that finish towards the top.

But you’re right. In an auction, you have to take advantage. If you can’t get decent hitting without going broke, perhaps it would be better to build off of pitching, because pitchers are coming in at a discount. That said, there are times when people think a pitcher is “going for low”, but when I put it in a model I have, it’s still too high…

by Mark Kieffer on Oct 6, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

And you can bet

I’ll be nominating Jose Bautista early, to have someone drop $25 or $30 on him and get 20 HRs…..

by Mark Kieffer on Oct 6, 2010 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

me

UBA-NL-only keeper-7th place with a rebuilding strategy
NL-only keeper-6th place with rebuild strategy
NL-only 11 team league, non-keep-8th place….
NL-only, 10 team, non-keep-2nd place, and 1st year in league-drafted hitters early, and worked the waiver wire for SP

raygu
www.faketeams.com
www.sbnation.com

by Ray Guilfoyle on Oct 5, 2010 9:22 PM EDT reply actions  

me

NL only sportsline h2h snake draft, 10 teams- 1st place
AL only sportsline h2h snake draft, 10 teams- made playoffs, lost in round 1

I don’t think it matters so much about putting hitting over pitching or the other way around. I remember a lot of fantasy leaguers being burned by ARod, Justin Morneau, Matt Kemp or Chase Utley. Actually I would not be surprised if the top 20 pre-season ranked hitters all disappointed. Maybe the to 20 pitchers does too…but that just makes thinks even.

I will admit I would rather have a great hitter as my #1 pick but after that I almost always alternate between hitters and pitchers as the rounds progress. Sometimes I make exceptions, but I try to have a balanced line-up of solid hitters and pitchers.

What’s the first thing usually posted on most fantasy league web sites as soon as the draft is over? It’s almost always something like “need pitching”…“trade for pitching”. etc.

As for closers, I don’t think their stats are near as team dependent as most people think. I broke down some stats a couple seasons ago (the post may be on this site actually) where I tried to find the common characteristics of pitchers with 30+ saves in a season. I went back a couple years and tried to find the stats and what turned out was that wins and losses of a team had little to do with the saves leaders in MLB. What the most telling stat was- pitchers who had 30+ saves in the past were more likely to repeat that stat again. And it mattered little which team they pitched for and what record that team ended up with.

Sure, there are pitchers that emerge and have nice seasons as closers. Certainly some years are more volatile than others. Having a good grip as to who will win a closer job out of spring training is obviously very important. But all in all, it seems those stud closers who have pulled off a 30+ save season are more likely than anyone else to do it again – even including new and unproven closers for good teams. That obviously has an exception as well- just check out Neftali Feliz from this season. But I think he’s more of an exception than a rule.

And despite everything I have written above I bet a person could make a team out of undrafted players and compete pretty well in any league. It’s been that way for a while in most leagues. So having a balanced line-up while keeping an eye on undrafted players is the strategy I would recommend. That and try to walk the line of knowing who to drop and when…grabbing someone off the waiver wire before others do…and somehow making that work for a whole season.

by acr on Oct 5, 2010 11:57 PM EDT reply actions  

edit

“Actually I would not be surprised if the top 20 pre-season ranked hitters all disappointed. Maybe the to 20 pitchers does too…but that just makes thinks even.”

That should have the word “half” and read…

Actually I would not be surprised if “HALF” the top 20 pre-season ranked hitters all disappointed. Maybe the to 20 pitchers does too…but that just makes thinks even.

by acr on Oct 6, 2010 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Snake Drafts AND Head to Head are a lot different

I don’t draft closers at all, and I punt steals if I can’t get some 20-20 guys… With starters, I’d draft whoever is left starting at around 11 or 12, and work the wire for guys who have two start weeks and matchups.

I don’t like head to head at all though. Not many guys perform in steady streams. You could have the best overall team, and not have anywhere close to the best “record”, and get eliminated from the playoffs early.

A lot of people like it though, and that’s cool. But I stay away from them, except for one I do with a few friends. But I never talk about that, and put no stock into who wins that league. Just my opinion

by Mark Kieffer on Oct 6, 2010 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

...

in the AL only and NL only leagues there usually are no free agent pitchers available unless someone is called up or coming off injury, gets a spot start and wins a rotation spot, etc. I’ve used my same strategy essentially for h2h and roto and it works in both. Everybody has to go with what’s worked in the past and get a little lucky too, I guess. But I never punt anything- it’s just something I have never understood. I can see someone punting saves and there being a high number of new closers win jobs during the year (like what happened in the NL a couple times over the past 7-8 years). But it’s easy to think that’s going to happen every year when it doesn’t. Then you end up with a pitching staff that has to do exceptionally well in 3 or 4 categories as opposed to pretty well in all of them. If someone punts saves in roto and ends up with just 1 point in that category that loss has to be made up somewhere else. But that’s a lot of points to make up. To me it seems easier to get a closer somewhere relatively decently priced and save myself the headache.

by acr on Oct 6, 2010 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rarely pay for Closers

I never say never. Agreed that the same guys get 30+ Savs per year and team record doesn’t matter all that much. The problem is that those CLs are very expensive for one stat. What I try to do is draft one above avg CL, by bidding often on CL (drives price up) but don’t overpay, i. e. stick to budget and get a guy new to the role who has potential. Then, as injuries/ineffectiveness lead to the inevitable replacement CL on about a third of MLB clubs, I pick up a 3rd CL who now has a promising gig. Typically, my last act before bed time at midnight is to review box scores. I look for unusual stuff such as a new guy getting a SAV. Sometimes this means staying up till 2 AM when Yahoo next day begins if that new CL needs to clear waivers. This approach is generally good for no worse than 3rd in SAVs. I might pick up a 4th CL if standings give me a chance to pick up a couple of points. There is no need to trade for a CL unless this is the one stat that will give me a boost in standings and I have been otherwise unsuccessful.

As for relying solely on undrafted players, several years ago someone did that research. As I recall his article, undrafted players picked up post draft won their league easily. Of course, who can predict which free agents will be that valuable prior to draft.

by Bama Len on Oct 31, 2010 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

14 team, Yahoo Roto keeper league snake draft: 12th place.

Alot of things went wrong for me this year. Pitching was ok but Greinke was nowhere close to what he was last year. Hitting was my biggest problem. The following players were busts: Pablo Sandoval, Lind, Ludwick, Bruce, Mark Reynolds, Reimold. On the upside, I do have great list options that I can keep (5 players) for next year that bodes well for my team as for young foundation: Kemp, Posey, Andrus, P. Alvarez, K. Morales, Domonic Brown, Liriano, Bumgarner, Drabek and Brett Anderson. Stinks that alot of things didn’t work out for me this year but I am not too bummed since my keepers are looking bright. Looking forward to next year.

Follow me on Twitter

by PostmanMatt on Oct 6, 2010 12:16 AM EDT reply actions  

Only way your team could be worse

Is if you had Ellsbury, and Aaron Hill.

I drafted Sandoval and he was busting for two months, and I said screw it, and dropped his ass. I do stress patience to an extent, though. I’ve been burned in the past with making some aweful moves too early. I see guys dropped in April and May sometimes that surprises me… Even happens from people I think are smart.

But it’s a long season. In the league I got 3rd place in, I was 2 strikeouts, 1 win, and 2 steals short of being in 2nd place…. On June 25th, I was dead last. I made waiver moves, and trades, got a bit lucky nobody got injured and continued to perform, and it worked out. If I had another couple of days, I would have gotten second because I was moving up. On the flip side, the trades could have flopped, and I would have finished like 8th or 10th.

Basically I wait until towards the end of June or so, and readjust my expectations for players. July, August, and September is enough time to get back into the mix. I do not get married to anybody I have anymore. I’ll trade anyone to drop somebody if I have to. I lose faith in players if they had a bad first half, and key metrics along with historical performance don’t help me stay confident. I’m not saying this is you, but lots of guys I know are “fans” and can’t let go of some guys, even if they should.

But on paper, you look to have a good foundation for next year. With keepers, it’s all good sometimes to not do as well as expected because it’s a longer term deal. You don’t necessarily have to put all your marbles in for one year, unless there’s big money at stake, or know you’ll have to rebuild anyhow. Lots of fun!

by Mark Kieffer on Oct 6, 2010 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ugh. Last place, again.

So this past year, in my AL-only league, I ended up in dead last. For the 2nd time in 5 years, and only once since I have joined the league have I made the money(5th). I thought I had a decent team this year. I started off with a good balance of speed and power, and even had the luxury of having two closers from the beginning of the season in Fuentes and Valverde. Chone Figgins was just one guy who screwed me. James Sheilds and his 5.0 era sucked it, Teixeira and his .200 avg and 8 HR through May as well as secondary players like Carlos Guillen and Ken Griffey added nothig to my 14 hitter, 9 pitcher lineup. At the auction, I had a sense that due to my lack of solid keepers, 2010 might turn into a rebuild year. But my team was so thoroughly out of itby the end of May I was willing to forsake trying to turn it around and instead started to make some trades with an eye toward 2011. I acquired a $15 Jacoby Ellsbury and an $11 Kendry Morales, along with a $10 Elvis Andrus to form a core that to me were the most undervalued keepers in the league. Later on I added a player I like in Sean Rodriguez, and lastly, b/c it is an -only league, I added one of the original guys I had drafted who had served me well, a $35 Jose Valverde, because closers are very difficult and this league puts a big premium on closers, even fair-valued ones.

So going into next year, my keepers look pretty good to me, but perhaps you guys can help. Here they are:
Andrus $10
Sean Rodriguez $10
Julio Borbon $10
Jacoby Ellsbury $15
Adam Jones $25
Hank Conger $5
Maicer Izturis $1
Kendry Morales $15
Dayan Viciedo $10
Valverde $35

This leaves me about $120 or so to draft some power and SP. Do you guys have any ideas?

by thomasps3 on Oct 7, 2010 10:25 AM EDT reply actions  

There

are 12 teams in the league, and it is old school 4×4 categories. Original roto rules with a few modifications here and there….
Rosters look like this:
C
C
1b
2b
SS
3b
CI
MI
OF
OF
OF
OF
DH
DH
P
P
P
P
P
P
P
P
P

by thomasps3 on Oct 7, 2010 12:27 PM EDT reply actions  

What I'm thinking

Why so much for Valverde, Conger, Sean-Rod, and Viciedo?

Do you not think you could get them for equal or less than what you currently have them for?

by Mark Kieffer on Oct 7, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nevermind with Valverde

It makes sense I guess. Almost a 1 to 1 ratio with closers to number of teams. But I’m kind of miffed that some of those other guys cost the same as proven players….

by Mark Kieffer on Oct 7, 2010 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

salaries

Conger is a farm player and their salaries are $5 for the first season and $10 for the second year. Viciedo was a farm player last year so he jumps to $10 for 2011. Any players picked up off the waiver wire (and there aren’t many worth keeping but S-Rod may be one) are $10. This is a keeper league, with farm systems and crazy inflation so if these guys are starting next year, they are worth it.

by DB11 on Oct 7, 2010 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hmm

I see. Well that presents its own challenges I guess. At the same time, this league also presents itself in the ability to take advantage of some of its shortfalls.

Doesn’t seem like having a price that high for a farm player is kind of risky? Just doesn’t seem worth it to pay $5 for a guy to take up a roster spot all year… How many bench slots does this team have? How many players are on the roster in total?

by Mark Kieffer on Oct 7, 2010 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Farm

You get to protect 5 farm players per year and can have an unlimited amount on your reserves during the season. So farm players do not take up a roster spot. The farm players are drafted in a separate minor league draft, we don’t bid on them. No bench, but anyone on DL or sent to minors can be reserved. 23 players on active roster.

by DB11 on Oct 7, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

So is the $5 and $10 for farm players

Out of your current budget. Like if you play in a $260 league, is that $15 gone for example?

by Mark Kieffer on Oct 7, 2010 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes.

That money, in the case of viciedo and conger, counts against your cap. the $10 salary instituted in a farm players 2nd year was instituted to deepen the available player pool, much to my chagrin, because the presence of the minor league draft makes this leqague much more intriguing, at least for me….

by thomasps3 on Oct 7, 2010 5:45 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

You're most def

Playing in a league different than any I’ve played. I’m not as big into the whole minor league draft aspect of it, but I understand how that could be more of a wrinkle.

Either way, I think your thinking is smart. Look at what’s overvalued and undervalued in your league, and build your team off of the undervalued pieces. If you do that, unless you are really unlucky, you should finish better than you did this year.

I come across as anti-pitching, but I’m not. I mean, I’d love to have CC, Lincecum, Halladay, etc., but I’m just not willing to get those guys at the prices the cost in my leagues… Now in your leagues, since people have all this money tied up in farm system, and spending a lot on closers, maybe there’s the opportunitiy to pay a couple extra bucks for a guy like that if you have a good strategy on filling in the other areas.

by Mark Kieffer on Oct 8, 2010 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

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