Who Would You Rather Have: Derek Jeter or Troy Tulowitzki?
by Ray Guilfoyle on Oct 13, 2009 12:36 PM EDT
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PrintA couple friends and I are having a discussion over who is the better shortstop-Derek Jeter or Troy Tulowitzki. If you factor in defense, Tulo is the better SS. But for roto/fantasy purposes, who is better?
Here's a look at their 2009 stats:
| Name | AB | H | HR | R | RBI | BB | SO | SB | AVG | OBP | SLG | OPS |
| Derek Jeter | 634 | 212 | 18 | 107 | 66 | 72 | 90 | 30 | 0.334 | 0.406 | 0.465 | 0.871 |
| Troy Tulowitzki | 543 | 161 | 32 | 101 | 92 | 73 | 112 | 20 | 0.297 | 0.377 | 0.552 | 0.929 |
Tulo has more power and drives in more runs, while Jeter hits for a better AVG. and steals more bases. I have to say I was shocked to see Jeter stole 30 bases. I am not an AL roto player, so I don't track American League players.
Jeter had a BABIP of .369 VS .323 for Tulo, while Tulo had a slightly higher WOBA-.393 to .390. Tulo walks more and strikes out more than Jeter.
So who would you rather have in 2010?
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Jeter not best SS on Yankees
Arod is the best SS on Yankees. One could argue that Jeter is not one of the top 3 players on Yankees. Tulo has much more upside at this point in time, plus he bats cleanup.
OK Chuckgu – ALCS game 7, if you were down by one run, runners on 2nd and 3rd with two outs bottom of ninth – who would you want AB -Jeter? Arod? Or Teiexeira?
Derek Jeter or Troy Tulowitzki?
Sarcasm, right?
Mind if I play? Pujols or Garko, who would you start? JFC, I am so sick of the Jeter love. Put that guy on any other team and the word ‘average’ has a face.
to me
30 SBs are 30 SBs….but I agree the Jeter love was a bit overboard recently.
You a Red Sox fan?
raygu
by Ray Guilfoyle on Oct 13, 2009 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually,
from the guy who traded the 35 yo Abreu specifically because he was stealing so many bases at such an old age, and therefor more open to injury, I don’t hold much value in Jeter’s thefts. 2009 was an outlier, book it.
Tulo
Tulo in a second i wouldnt even think about it. He is a stud and has proven himself now after a couple years. Jeter is a great player dont get me wrong but Tulo is a much better fantasy player
Surrogates Is Completely Right!
I agree. I would take Tulo in a heartbeat over Jeter, in fantasy or, for me, even in real life. Place Jeter on the Pirates or Nationals and he is an average shortstop at best. His defense is suspect at best, as all those "jump-throws’ most shortstops get in front of. His most famous play, his flip to the catcher against the Athletics in the playoffs, only happened because he was LATE getting where he needed to be…Tulo in heartbeat…fantasy or real life….
actually
if you put Pujols on the Pirates or the Nationals, he would be average at best, no? I don’t think that argument holds. I would take Tulo also.
raygu
by Ray Guilfoyle on Oct 13, 2009 10:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Red Sox Fan
There is a lot of Jeter love going around….. A bulk of his reputation is from when the Yankees were winning world series in the biggest (sorry LA) media town on the planet. If the Yankees win this year (And i’m rooting for the Dodgers now that my beloved Sox are done) it will get much much worse.
A-Rod reminds me of Nomah in his prime… lots of hits… high average… but the fielding is marginal at best. And I think SS is the most important defensive position after catcher.
On a side note… I fear the Yankees this year… baseball is more than just numbers… and I think this could be the year A-rod redeems himself. He’s had the injury… the PED’s the lonnnng history of failure in the clutch… so if he fails again it’s nothing new….no pressure…. but playing in that park… he just has to catch a couple of homers at just the right time… and everything is forgiven……. A’rod rises above injury… A’Rod can do it without steroids…. etc etc… blech (I mentioned i’m a Sox fan right).
I like Jeter… he will wind up in the Hall of Fame (deservedly so)….. but in a fantasy league? Tulo… every single time.
Now this post I do not get
I would think that Sox fans would be proud of what Jeter has accomplished because he represents their division, their ilk. After all, he did not get where is he is by battling inferior opponents so he’s not exactly a fraud.
My point, however, is not that Jeter isn’t worthy of some accolades, because he is. But rather if he’s worth comparison, in a fantasy sense, to MLB’s truly outstanding players. My answer to that, is a big, fat NO. He has no power, no speed, and, actually, no great ability to hit. He just gets on base (primarily because of those around him) and lets his billion dollar teammates drive him in. And that’s not someone I draft high because doing so would be like drafting Peneiro high and hoping his defense continues to bail him out. Better to draft real talent, I say.
Reyes
I’d take Tulowitzki over Jeter. But I am wondering about when to take the plunge on Reyes. Isn’t Jeter a safer pick?
Some Players are Great no Matter the Team
Going back to the Pujols argument, if you put him on the Pirates he is still Pujols. His numbers may go down, but he is still a talented hitter. Look @ Bay, a nice fantasy player when with Pirates but a STUD with Boston.
Miguel Cabrera, Hanley Ramirez, Arod…..no matter where they play they are Fantasy Worthy.
Can not say the same for Jeter.
True
This is very true and when you look at Tulo he is the protection in the lineup. He bats fourth to protect Helton and give Helton more pitches to hit. To have a young player behind a veteran like that is a great 3-4 punch for the Rockies. Too bad they came up short this year…Tulo has a great future ahead of him tho (prob wont be in Colorado tho)
damn shame
they lost to the Phils….b/c the Dodgers were 14-4 against them in the regular season….rather play the Rockies than the Phillies.
raygu
by Ray Guilfoyle on Oct 14, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
OMG -Surrogates – “He just gets on base (primarily because of those around him) and lets his billion dollar teammates drive him in.” – so his 2800 career hits are becuase if the players around him? Are you kidding me?
It is obvious PNeal either doesnt know baseball or is a Yankee Hater/Bosox fan!! Place Jeter on Pirates or Nationals and he would not hit >.300 every year? Are you serious? What makes you make that claim?
Slurvey – I never said Jeter should win MVP – baseball analysts have! I think Tex would come in 2nd behind Mauer…
Jeter
What they are trying to say is Jeter playing on the Yankees gives him so many more pitches to hit and so many people left to drive him in. Pitchers have to throw strikes to Jeter….you cant walk him and have Damon, Tex, Arod, and Matsui come up with someone on.
Do you say the same about Ichiro? How about Pete Rose? hmmm? Rose had power hitters behind him in Cinncinatti!
2800 career hits
should not be surprising for a guy who probably leads baseball in PA for the last decade (only behind Ichy?). Which is exactly Jeter’s main attribute – he’s always in the lineup and bats .300 while there.
I guess the better argument since I, at least, have been discounting the MFY value on Jeter and not addressing the original question (who ya got in 2010?), is who would you rather have, Tulo batting in NY or Jeter in COL. Anyone who answers ‘Jeter’ in that scenario needs a head transplant.
Chuckgu – how is Bay a stud batting <.270? He K’s alot too! But he would look good a pinstripes next year
Jason Bay Fantasy Worthy
Career highs in HR and RBI. An example of a good player on a bad team elevating his play when moved to a contender.
To PNeal
So was Barry Bonds an average LF in Pittsburgh? Is Ryan Zimmerman an average 3Bman in DC?
Bonds and Zimmerman
Bonds was young when he played in Pittsburgh and alot of teams didnt know how to pitch him then. but he is also one of a kind…the best hitter in baseball if you ask me. And as for Zimmerman it think he is an avg 3rd baseman in the MLB
Zimm
is better than AVG. Will have a post about him tomorrow.
raygu
by Ray Guilfoyle on Oct 14, 2009 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions
this year
He was better than avg this year only…and only because he had Dunn behind him. I would put him in the middle of the pack as third baseman. Being an avg third baseman is still a great hitter in the MLB though.
middle???
who’s ahead of him?? Reynolds and AROD….who else? 3B is going to be a very weak position in NL and mixed leagues next season.
raygu
by Ray Guilfoyle on Oct 14, 2009 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions
David Wright, Miguel Cabrera, Evan Longoria, Aramis Ramirez, Michael Young….i would take all these guys over Zimmerman too and thats just off the top of my head
Cabrera
does he still play 3b? Wright is middle of the pack for me….I’ll take Zimm over Aramis in 2010. I have an article scheduled to post tomorrow comparing Longoria to Zimmerman.
raygu
by Ray Guilfoyle on Oct 14, 2009 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Wrights
huge drop in power will be something to watch in 2010. In that ballpark, I don;‘t see him hitting more than 15-18. Heck he only hit 10 in 2009, and that lineup won’t be much better in 2010. Not sure what you get from Reyes, and who plays 1B, LF, RF?
raygu
by Ray Guilfoyle on Oct 14, 2009 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
To Robg62
Hmm…For one, I am a diehard Orioles fan. Second, I am very knowledgeable about baseball as I played at the collegiate level. Now to address your bogus claims….Bonds on the Pirates is NOTHING compared to Bonds on the Giants. Yes, his last 3 years in Pit he had monster seasons, but so that means he had 3 outta of 7 good seasons in Pit. Hardly stellar. In SF he was a straight Stud…Bigger market, better team, got his name out more…oh and the roids helped too…now to Zimmerman…until this year he had not hit over .283 (besides for the 58 AB’s in his first season) and he had not hit over 24 HR…for 3b, where the player is supposed to be a prime time power hitter, until this year he was an average 3b at best…this year he placed himself a lot higher on the list, so we will see if he continues to play at the same level with pitchers now figuring him out…now to my favorite argument, Derek Jeter…place on a team besides for the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, and Cubs (big market teams) and he would be an average SS…on any other team he would not hit .334, because teams would pitch around him. In the Yankees lineup, heck I’d face him over just about anyone besides for Posada in that lineup. People give him pitches to hit because of the 400 million dollars in hitters behind him…and his fielding, give me a break…those jump throws, why impressive they are, normal shortstops get in front of it and make the fundamental play…but Jeter has to be flashy and make the jump throw…I would take Tulo, Reyes, Rollins, Hanley, Bartlett over him, and those are just the ones that jump out of my head…..bottom line..Arod + Teix + Damon + Cano + Matsui + Swisher = Jeter gets a million good pitches to hit…place him and his “un-able to pull the ball” swing in the middle of KC’s lineup and he hits .280 tops…
don't forget
that Bonds on teh Pirates won the MVP twice in his last three years there…and placed 2nd in the other year.In his last year in PITT, he lead the NL in runs, walks, OBP, SLG, and OPS. I wouldn’t say he was nothing in PITT.
raygu
by Ray Guilfoyle on Oct 14, 2009 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Why would teams pitch around Jeter if he were on another team? He is not a power hitter!! Do you say the same thing about Ichiro? He is on a medocre team and still gets 200+ hits every year!!! He doesnt have $400mm in hitter behind him…
I gurantee he would be pitched around in other lineups. Ichiro has the luxury of hitting leadoff, meaning 1 out of his 4 at bats a game he is guranteed to see strikes because no on pitches around the leadoff. The other three at bats, Ive seen him numerous times swing at terrible pitches and get infield hits b/c of his speed. Jeter does not have that speed. If he were in another lineup, and wasn’t getting pitches to hit, and still decided to swing at some and rolled over them line Ichiro it would be a simple ground ball out for him because he lacks that speed. If Jeter played for the Royals, I see him hitting around .280 with a lot of walks. I’m simply trying to say I do not think Jeter is what every Yankee fan makes him out to be. Good shortstop = yes; done a tone for the Yankee program = yes; best SS in the game or even in the top 5 = NO
While I feel that Jeter is overrated
He is Damn consistent. Tulo is not… He all of a sudden turned it on this year, andt he SBs came out of nowhere.
With Jeter, you’ve got someone who’s going to bat over .300, score a lot of runs in that lineup, give you 10-15 HR, drive in 60-70, and steal you 20 bases.
His career low in SB is 10. In HR it’s 10. In BA it’s .291
With Tulo, he’s been hit and miss. He has 31 career stolen bases, 20 of which came this season… While a .290 hitter with 20+ HR and 30+ RBI is nice, who knows if he will steal again?
Tulo is going to be a 2nd/3rd round guy for next year right? Jeter probably the same. To me, I don’t think one can afford to take a bit of a risk so early in the draft. I’d rather draft consistent guys early and then take my chances later in the draft.
With fantasy, it doesn’t matter how great you are relative to others, or whether you are as good as the media thinks. It’s about getting your stats. Tulo has more upside, no doubt, but Jeter has much less downside. I like to hedge my bets, but that’s just me.
While I may not win a league, I hardly ever finish below the halfway point, if I’m updating my team all year.
Also with Jeter
you have a guy that will regress with the MFY lineup because he’s not especially talented. So although I agree with you that he will always be in the lineup and get his share of singles, I wouldn’t much care for him if that lineup went stale, say, like in 2008.
Point blank. If you’re wanting to draft Jeter high you best be sure the MFY lineup will produce as well, because he ain’t good enough to produce by his lonesome.
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