Help me pick some keepers

by hiphopnerd on Jan 23, 2007 10:58 AM EST

I need to choose two starting pitchers from this group:
Roto, 9x9, these are the pitching categories:
W, SV, TBF, K, GIDP, HLD, ERA, WHIP, K/BB

Brett Myers
Danny Haren
Aaron Harang
Jonathon Papelbon

I also have Liriano, and as much as I'd love to keep him for 2008 and beyond, I don't think I can justify using one out of only 6 keeper slots on a guy who won't do anything at all this year AND will have to take up a roster space all year.

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GIDP

GIDPs is an interesting category. I've never seen it used for a pitchers so I'll throw out my hypothesis on its application. There are only a couple of DPs each game so I would assume this category would favor starting pitchers because they throw more innings. My gut tells me this looks similar to Wins. This category may also favor some of the better infield defenses, but I'm not how much additional value this gives beyond my first assumption. Another tact woudl be to focus on groundball pitchers but then one would give-up strikeouts and K/BB.

by faketeams on Jan 23, 2007 12:18 PM EST reply actions

Yeah

I'm not weighing the GIDP category much in my decision here, I just want to select the two best pitchers. Kinda leaning toward Myers & Harang...but it's a tough decision, especially complicated by Papelbon moving into the rotation.

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The commish likes to get one or two 'quirk' categories on both the offensive and pitching sides each year.

Right now, the breakdown is:
R, HR, RBI, SH, SB, HBP, AVG, OBP, SLG
W, SV, TBF, K, GIDP, HLD, ERA, WHIP, K/BB

I'm trying to get SH and TBF removed in favor of other stats. Actually, I wrote a giant post in that league's board with some research on these 'quirk categories' that might be of some interest to this site:

I'm all for some quirks in the league, and I know Yahoo doesn't provide the greatest selection of categories in order to achieve that, but some of the categories just don't sit well with me. Either it's a stat thats almost impossible to account for when choosing players, it's a stat that's accumulated by players who would otherwise have absolutely no value, or it's something that doesn't happen a lot which will cause the standings in that category to be a big jumble with little separation amongst teams.
* SH - Top player = Roy Oswalt with 20. In fact, of the 50 players with the most SH last year, 23 of them are pitchers, who can't earn offensive stats.
* SF- Top player = Orlando Cabrera with 11. Looks better than SH, since all of the top 50 are offensive players. But SF are going to be a very scarce commodity if we go with this.
* HBP- Top player= Reed Johnson with 21. Might actually be a decent choice. Top 50 is made up of big sluggers like Howard, Giambi, Holliday...and also guys who just get hit a lot like Rowand & Eckstein.
* CS- We sorta decided this sucked as a category last year...but in comparison to some of the other options, perhaps it isn't that bad. Top (worst) player = Juan Pierre with 20. Pods was second with 19.
* GIDP- Top (worst) player = Miguel Tejada with 28. I like GIDP as a category a lot. It provides a bit of a handicap to those teams who are loaded with big, slow slugging 1B/DH types, and it occurs little more frequently than the others things, meaning there will be some seperation in the standings
* IBB- Top player = Barry Bonds with 38. Kinda already factored in with OBP...
* Putouts or Assists- eh.
* Errors or Field %- Could be the perfect quirk...errors certainly aren't an infrequent occurrence. Top players are Felipe Lopez & Carlos Guillen with 28, and most of the high error players are guys who will be owned in the league. If we don't want to make it a counting stat, fielding % could be used, although that might decrease the seperation in the standings.
So my preference for offensive quirk stats: Errors (or Field %), GIDP, HBP, CS, IBB, SF, SH, PO, Assists
Moving onto pitching:
* GIDP- I can't find the leaders for this anywhere online. I think GIDP is a decent stat, as it does show some skill by the pitcher to get ground balls in important situations.
* Balks- Ted Lilly led with 4. I don't think there are enough balks in a season to justify it being used as a category.
* WP- Daniel Cabrera led with 17, Contreras & Lackey next with 16 each. This could work.
* TBA-Tough call, as the leaders are both bad pitchers and simply ones who pitched a ton of innings. Carlos Silva leads with 408, Buehrle is next with 407...but Harang, Garland, Garcia, Schilling, & Pettite are all in the top 20.
* TBF- Pretty similar to TBA, both bad pitchers and those who threw a ton of innings. Couldn't find TBF, but found Plate Appearances which should be quite similar. Harang is tops with 993, Arroyo next with 992. Willis, Smoltz, Webb, Capuano in the top 10.
* HBP- Dontrelle Willis led with 19, David Bush & Ramon Ortiz next with 18.
* CG- Far too rare nowadays. Aaron Harang & CC Sabathia led with 6.
* SHO- Even rarer than CG. Chris Carpenter & Brandon Webb led with 3.
So my preference for offensive quirk stats: WP, HBP, GIDP, CG, TBA, TBF, SHO, Balks

http://hiphopnerd.com

by hiphopnerd on Jan 23, 2007 1:29 PM EST up reply actions

Oddball Categories

I played in a 5x5 with unequally-weighted categories plus Net Steals. The Net Steals end-up giving those with +10 the value of a 5th category. Under +10 seemed to be just random. Not to mention it was a negative category for many non-base stealers. Outside of the traditional 5x5, most categories are covered. OBP typically ties with AVG and Runs. SLG will tie to HR, RBI, Runs. These aren't oddball. Just a different way of measuring the same thing. Or just getting the league decision maker's favorite/hated player valued the way that person thinks the player should be valued.

by faketeams on Jan 23, 2007 1:51 PM EST reply actions

my opinion

Haren and Papelbon, keep Liriano if youn can, seriously, you'll thank yourself later

by omshagome on Jan 24, 2007 2:20 PM EST reply actions

Liriano

I know...I hate the idea of throwing him back out there for someone else to grab and keep for years and years and years.

Can anyone remember from previous years any pitchers that missed the entire season due to injury (Mike Hampton last year?) Did their clubs (and thus yahoo) place them immediately on the DL on opening day and simply leave them there?

I couldn't keep him and have him take up a roster spot...but if he sat in one of my DL spots the whole year, that could work.

http://hiphopnerd.com

by hiphopnerd on Jan 26, 2007 1:03 PM EST up reply actions

If I had to

I'd go with Myers - very good Ks - and Haren. Harnag has been good for two years now and I wouldn't second guess choosing him over Haren based on the AL/NL. Anyone have an explanation for his leap in IP and the huge one in K/9 from 6.9 to 8.3?

by faketeams on Jan 24, 2007 4:54 PM EST reply actions

Harang

was an absolute steal for me last year. Nobody wanted to take the chance that his 2005 stats were for real, until I finally took him in the 17th round. As for IP, in tracking his starts last year it seemed that since Cincy's bullpen sucked so bad, he was often left in an inning or two too long. There were a number of games where he gave up runs in the 7th and 8th after already entering that inning with over 100 pitches thrown.

I was hoping the rumors of a Haren trade to the NL came true...but since it hasn't I'm leaning towards not keeping him.

http://hiphopnerd.com

by hiphopnerd on Jan 26, 2007 1:11 PM EST up reply actions